What a bizarre set of conclusion. if they were conclusions. First, think of the Gp4 Escort: a car nearly perfectly 50/50 weight balance, quick light steering, a 5 linked rear axle with nice rod ends and pick up points optimized for loose surface. Decent 96" wheelbase. Then look at the basics of the Fiesta: narrow, tall short enough to make all the fans of sub 93" wheelbase junk have a stiffy, and then there are the unknowns about THAT Fiesta but the stock cars had drasticaly unequal length driveshfts, and a firewall rear mount rack making optimising the bump and droop steer characteristics difficult. In short, it was a comparison between one of the best, most developed and easier cars to drive to a first time effort based on a shitty chassi. Just try and remember that 16 years after this test, Stig Blomqvist was able to drive a car a bit bigger but well developed (and yes I mean well developed, Stig, and his homie from Örebro Ola Strömberg were consultants and Janne Sellholm up the road a bit made their trannie gears) to 3rd OVERALL in the 1996 RAC with 99 mondern GpA and N 4wd turbo cars. The Skoda Favorit was powered by a VW 1600 8v motor no different from the stuff we used to get in VW Rare-bits. Try to understand that it is the specification and the degree of time and effort in building and setting up a car which is in the end decisive, not the drive configuration. Rememeber Corsica 1984? Jean Ragnotti wins in the rwd Renault mid engine 280bhp 1380cc? GpB R5, then look to his results 11 or 12 years later when he's well older and yet in a Renault Clio 175bhp car, he beats every one of his old winnning times on the same stages. How? It was a well develped car with the right bits in it. I fear that most people commenting have never driven much in really well prepped cars that were any good in the various drive configurations really with the exception of ACP in his current car. That test primarlily showed that Ford was on wacky drugs when they chose the Fiesta, THAT SHELL, and that much power. John Vanlandingham Seattle, WA. 98168 ........................................................... At risk of firing John up I'll offer a couple of my thoughts on the FWD/RWD question. 1) The article implies the Fiesta had no power steering. Good FWD rally cars have p/s. I have driven 250 hp FWD rally cars with a locked diff and failed p/s - on Rim. 3-4 seconds per mile slower and you need 30 minutes in an air conditioned truck to recover from a 20 minute stage! So without p/s the difference between the two configurations is exaggerated. 2) 65/35 weight of FWD vs 50/50 of RWD is sometimes an advantage and sometimes not. FWD traction on low friction surfaces and downhill is better. RWD is better on high friction and uphill, even more so at low speed. FWD front tire wear is usually faster than RWD rear tire wear. Worn tires are slow. 3) FWD drive forces stabilize a car, RWD drive forces destabilize a car. When its slippery FWD stability helps most drivers go faster. 4) The lower polar moment of inertia in a good FWD car improves transient handling (medium to high speed linked turns). This is further helped by the fact that in linked turns the FWD front tires spend a larger portion of the time pointing nearly straight down the road than do the RWD rear tires (due to the large arc swung by rear tires when the vehicle rotates for sideslipping turns). 5) The last difference is the most ambiguous -- driver controllability. Since brake torque application is instant and throttle drops take time to affect wheel forces, a left-foot-braked FWD car can have its handling trimmed to the optimum oversteer or understeer condition instantly, at any time during the corner by adjusting steering, throttle and brake. A RWD car can also be trimmed, but the adjustments that involve turning in and slowing down simultaneously are far trickier to negotiate. Either drive configuration needs the right tires, suspension, handling balance and quick steering to go fast. Doug Shepard ........................................................... >At risk of firing John up I'll offer a couple of my thoughts >on the FWD/RWD question. Dougie, Dougie, Dougie!! YOU should write more often, I think you DO know what you're talking about, you HAVe driven not simply fast, but good as well. A lot better than the amusing spectacle of kids playing in a field a couple of times and then saying "I have mastered the LFB thing!" >1) The article implies the Fiesta had no power steering. >Good FWD rally cars have p/s. I have driven 250 hp FWD >rally cars with a locked diff and failed p/s - on Rim. 3-4 >seconds per mile slower and you need 30 minutes in an air >conditioned truck to recover from a 20 minute stage! So >without p/s the difference between the two configurations is >exaggerated. Also bear in mind the motors were very very agressively tuned, hard hitting and high 9000 rpm for a BDG in mid 70s rally trip , BDG dbeing the 2 liter, the 1.6 BDA in rally trim revved to a smidge over 10,000. This also means they were geared short, like 5.1 or so. >2) 65/35 weight of FWD vs 50/50 of RWD is sometimes an >advantage and sometimes not. FWD traction on low friction >surfaces and downhill is better. RWD is better on high >friction and uphill, even more so at low speed. FWD front >tire wear is usually faster than RWD rear tire wear. Worn >tires are slow. And here is the advantage for MOST people in fwd, for the PEOPLE, not the superiority of the driveline configuration. IF we posit that the OVERARCHING task for the driver, and the driver IS the biggest variable, is to find grip, or traction, then with a front drive car with their typical _slightly_ more weight on the front wheels, is at a relative initial advantage FOR the Average amature, and beginner, approaching the point to chop throttle, and chop! and even if the are tardy in pinning the brakes to shift weight forward, the weight IS already there. Even if the barely drag the brakes, the weight is there, althou if you hang on a second, yes here it is right here, MY fwd drive car which has an EMPTY front load of 62%, shifts to a rather nice 51% when loaded with driver, co-driver and fuel and junk'n'stuff. Also re the Escort in its Gp4 form, yes the Escort is a special cae, most production rwd cars share similarly poor front real and side to side balance, ever wonder why those coircle track guys screw with corner weights and alignment?? ve forces stabilize a car, RWD drive forces >destabilize a car. When its slippery FWD stability helps >most drivers go faster. slight more weight over the drive and steering wheels so OK, ASSUMING the car has a good diff of some sort. >4) The lower polar moment of inertia in a good FWD car >improves transient handling (medium to high speed linked >turns). This is further helped by the fact that in linked >turns the FWD front tires spend a larger portion of the time >pointing nearly straight down the road than do the RWD rear >tires (due to the large arc swung by rear tires when the >vehicle rotates for sideslipping turns). Actually Doug when I've driven friends rwd cars I tend to drive cleaner than with my beloved little SAAB, I only worry about the front wheels in the SAAB, ther rear will eventually follow along. >5) The last difference is the most ambiguous -- driver >controllability. Since brake torque application is instant >and throttle drops take time to affect wheel forces, Doug, I will take a small issue here. I know rwd guys faster than most guys here in the states and they point out that the _very high compression, and very short 5.1 or SHORTER geared cars do in fact do a considerable amount of forward weight shift when they chop, not roll off, but sharply chop throttle. Some years after I had retired from serious racing, I happened by a moto-cross track wher some old friend were trashing around and they knew the track, Orondo Park was a favorite so the said here, ride this (disgusting huge monster full 500cc high compression) 4 stroke Husqvarna. After the third dive over the bars and subsequent face plants, I realised that the sharp snap off/hard brake/, shift the weight forward thing we do upon entrances to corners on 2 stroke bikes with the EXACT SAME CHASSI AND BRAKES was not needed and infact was spitting me off forwards. Much to my friends amusement. They were always amazed just how vigourously and in so many languages I actually do swear in. And how bad the swearing got while kickstarting a high comp 500 4 stroke PIG! >a left-foot-braked FWD car can have its handling trimmed to >the optimum oversteer or understeer condition instantly, at >any time during the corner by adjusting steering, throttle >and brake. A RWD car can also be trimmed, but the >adjustments that involve turning in and slowing down >simultaneously are far trickier to negotiate. I think that depends on the driver again, all I really know is moto-cross bikes so I drive like I drove those, and I think most fast rwd guys do subtle brake and throttle things with their cars, after all MOST of them aren't as sideways as they imagine. >Either drive configuration needs the right tires, >suspension, handling balance and quick steering to go fast. And grip. >Doug Now that wasn't so bad was it, SMOOOOCH!!! 8) John Vanlandingham Seattle, WA. 98168 ...........................................................